>> do you leave a lot to your family? >> that's a very sensitive question, too sensitive to answer. >> i'm taking it all for me. kids, you'ren your own. guys, thanks very much. >> that is a dangerous and growing inequality and lack of upward mobility that has jeopardized middle class america's basic market, that if you work hard you have a chance to get ahead. >> president obama this week blasting income inequality, but are his policies to blame. welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus with steve forbes and others. steve, have his policies helped or hurt income disparity? >> it's hurt. this is the most miserable recovery in american history. medium incomes are lower than

they were five years ago, the uncertainty of obama care, the horrific tax code, less opportunity for people to rise up. >> rick, he is criticizing something that happened under his watch. >> yeah, here's the problem that i have. first of all, and john will love hearing me say this. i'm not sure that government is a big answer. >> we are all happy to hear you say that. >> i knew you would be. but here's the problem. most people analyze this in terms of do you think obama's policies produce growth, anti-growth. growth is actually not the issue because it only matters if it's shared. if a company that's making $14 billion in profits this year makes $20 billion next year, what's the difference if they don't are the benefit? >> but john, it is kind of the issue because sometimes a rising tide lifts all boats to quote john f. kennedy, rick's favorite president. if you look at what happened

under the reagan term, the lower 20% and the top 20% increased by double digits after those tax rate cuts. >> i'm one of those people who believes that income and equality is unrelentingly beautiful. when that expands that means that life-style and equality is shrinking. people generally get rich by virtue of mass producing that which was formerly available to rich people. they're not producing enough inequality and that's giving a great deal less life-style enhancements for those not rich. >> but the bottom line is that when you have a slow economy like we had in the 70 the rich very often get richer but the poor get poorer. that didn't happen during the reagan era, did it? >> no, it didn't. look, it's not just the obama administration's fault. it's the bush administration's fault. the cheap dollar policy creates financial bubbles. who can take advantage of

financial bubble? the rich. the poor always have to sell out at the bottom. number one. number two, the regulatory creep that occurred under bush and has accelerated under obama has made it very difficult to expnd in areas where you typically find high wage blue collar jobs, in transportation, energy extraction and so on. i hope rick will be pleased to hear that i'm not blaming this entirely on president obama. >> well, on theother hand, mike, president obama's solution to all this and they're saying it in europe, the imf is saying it, is to have this global wealth tax, to tax the rich more, to bring the rich down, that will help income disparity. what do you think of that plan? >> as we've seen under president obama, david, the exact opposite happens. one of the areas where obama has really hurt the economy is with small businesses. his investment tax increase really hurts small business. it went from 35% to 43% on

passive income. this really is an usual. during expansions y typically see new business startups accelerate. this is the only recovery i've seen back the 1930s where new business startups have flat lined. when you increase tax rates on them you don't get that capital. all that money that rick is talking about that needs to be spent, invested into new businesses. that's the genesis of economic growth. capital investments. >> while small businesses are getting hurt, the big businesses have been doing fine. in fact, look what happened with the obama recovery compared to the bush expansion. the top one percent, we're hearing a lot about them, they had an expansion of 65% during bush. during the obama so called recovery they got 93%. so the rich have all these special deals which is helping them get more money while the poor are losing. >> i hear what you are saying. here's the thing.

we see time and again these poll significances say we do want pro growth economic policies but they show up in washington d.c. and i think they got some kind of stockholm syndrome where they do their krony capitalism to redistrict and that doesn't work. mike is right. all new job creation over the last decade or so comes from the small business startups and, boy, they're getting crushed and it's really, really bad. we are penalizing success and by the way, david, we have been at this with the president doing stimulus, $3 and a half trillion, all the federal reserve help is subpar. >> not only are the small guys getting hit with taxes but regulations are out of sight now and that's a form of tax, is it not? >> it is. regulations are taxes. we learned that back in the 1980s and 70s. when you have these vaguely written rules thousands of pages

long, huge uncertainty, small businesses, new businesses startups don't have the money to cope with that as large companies do. we're seeing trickle down economics and this does not work. >> the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, there is something wrong, right? >> clearly. but all the analyses i'm hearing speaks to growth. what good is growth if you put all the money in the one percent pocket. >> that's a great point but it's happening more during this administration. that's the point. >> let me speak to that though. you pointed out that in th reagan years we didn't have as big of problem. what did we have in the reagan years that we don't have today? >> tax rate cuts. >> that may be but we had strong unions in the private sector to stand up for worker rights. we don't have that anymore. >> we had way more taxes and way more regulation that's stalling out economic job growth.

we had more part -- we had about 400,000 more part-time jobs in this economy and 153,000ess full time jobs. that's not growth. you cannot have growth with part time wages like that. >> let me ask the producers put back on the screen income growth and get rich to talk about this. we had massive tax rate cuts from 70% to 28% during the reagan era andoth the bottom and the top did well. that's what we want, right? >> we really do want that. in the mid to late 70s is a period very much like the one we're living through right now, a lot of bad economic policy. we had weak leadership in washington, horrible political division, and it was a democrat paul voguer who worked with reagan. he was the fed chief who got interest rates up, broke the back of inflation. that combined with reagan's tax cuts unleashed this entrepreneurial boom that was

hidden beneath the surface. all it needed was some fresh air. >> instead, all that's booming right now is the stock market and that's because the fed is printing more cash which is great for the rich, not good for everybody else. >> that's obama's version of trickle down economics and that's why we haven't had job creation. >> although we did have a good report on friday. >> but this is five years into a recovery and we have median incomes come down, five years showing signs of life. i'm in business, i want hope it lasts. >> i'm sending a body guard over to you, john, in washington because a lot of people in the streets may not share your point of view that income inequality is -- >> we got to allow john to answer that. >> look throughout history. it's those who get enormously rich who make our lives better.

income inequality loves poor people. if you grow the economomy lots inequality but everyone will have jobs and the gadgets they want. >> i like a raising tide raises all boats. when it comes to a middle class in dis strotressdistress, detro forefront. rand paul at the bottom of the hour. up next, how all your online holiday shopping could be proving the private mart already knows how to fix health care in america. care in america. we'll explain coming up next. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you: if every u.s. home replaced one light bulb with a compact fluorescent bulb, the energy saved could light how many homes? 1 million? 2 million?

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war ii and changed the course of history. >> try to imagine this. a billion page views in just five days. that's what walmart.com saw during the launch of the holiday shopping season. amazon reportedly processing 26 million orders on cyber monday alone. no big headlines about websites crashing or a breach in privacy. john says this is proof we should let the private market fix health care in america. >>his is pretty simple. as you point out amazon can do 306 transactions per second where healthcare.gov people get up in the middle of the night so traffic can be low. if you want to fix health care,

remove government. >> rick, the fact is that the private sector works fine with these numbers, the public sector crash. >> but i have to remind all of you because it's kind of selecti selectively reminded. i'm not happy with the happy of healthcare.gov. nobody has taken more you know what than me but at the same time keep this in mind, the government -- and i blame the obama administration for this -- they have shut out successful private online companies like e health who have been working effectively for ten years. >> it's true that every company that starts out runs into problems, but listen to this anecdote. when jeff bezos was starting out, he had a gu in charge of phone calls, calling in, who said every call will be answered within a minute. in a meeting bezos tested that.

that guy was gone within a year. not so in government. >> you would have six months of hearings whether that guy could be fired. we have to stop the administrative whitewash and the fog machine that's working overtime to spin that this is a great thing. here's the big problem, eah, amazon processes 3 million a day. that's what we need, what the administration needs, to float health insurance. 3 million into the sysm. by next march meaning young adults. they have such a complicated back end. it's more complicated than a moon launch. they have to cross-check it with the irs. they have to cross-check it with the department of homeland security. stop the whole thing and let them get it right from insurance companies. >> steve, it's just a matter of

fi efficiency. >> this gets to all the problems people have with startups in the private sector. if you don't succeed you go out of business and you don't have taxpayers you can put your fingers in their pockets and get more money. again, why not have private enterprise and health care, have safety nets and let people know what they're doing turning scarsty into abundance. >> there is a little bit of a free market in heal care and where there is it works well. >> things like plastic surgery that are typically not covered by insurance, they have improved tremendously in quality over the last ten to 15 years and prices have plummeted. i like what steve is saying about accountability. look at ted turner. he got cnn up and running in one year. he had his whole reputation riding on that. they have had five years for obama care.gov and they still can't get it right.

>> fox news by the way is more efficient than what ted turner created. i had to throw that in, forgive me. it is simple though. basically in the private sector you have a bottom line. in the public sector it's just a bottomless pit, right? >> that's right. it's not simply that the private sector does it better but that they are constantly looking for ways to be more innovative, more effective. when you look at the cyber monday sales from this year, they're increased by 17 and a half percent over last year and making it easier for people to purchase through their tablets, their phones. this is something tat completely eludes the federal government. >> rick, let me put outope here. the president has a lot of contacts in silicon valley, any chance he can get some of those guys working on his website? >> i'm told there is a number of people from silicon valley

involved so far. we still have issues on the back end but they're aressing them. >> quickly, john, go ahead. >> i think he got the people from web van, but the bigger picture here is once they fix the website their problems only just begin given the simple truth, the affordable care act is a contradiction in terms. it will not be affordable if people can transact. >> the constitution of these united states of america, it's not a republican saying that. this comes from someone who this comes from someone who actually voted for pre every day we're working to be an even better company - and to keep our commitments.

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the white house delaying another part of the health care law, this time pushing back the deadline for small business exchange. now the president is catching heat for tweaking the law without the approval of congress, even from some folks who voted for him. >> the problem with what the president is doing is that he's not simply posing a danger to the constitutional system. he >> rich, is john on the mark here? >> yes, he is. obama is making unilateral changes to a piece of legislation and the problem is where is the check and balance on that, where are the limits, what's to prevent him from changing the law entirety. i realize it's a little bit of a

grey area but obama has gone overboard on this. >> rick, doesn't this bothers i some way. >> this is somethiig that's gone on throughout our modern history. in this case though what troubles me is if you re the affordable care act, this does permit these things to be done by the executive branch. there . >> jonathan turly says it's against the constitution. there have been changes and tweaks done by the president. is this wrong? >> it's wrong. we are the united states of america, not venezuela where they make the law up as they go along. if he wants to change it, go to the congress, but you don't say i'm not going to enforce this part of the law. >> sabrina, turly is not a witch

hunter of the president. he voted for the president. >> right. i think he's thinking, i remember a time when america could brag that we we a nation of laws, not willful men and women who made up the rules. it's different when you elect a superstar he suddenly doesn't think that he's there to be the president. >> good or bad for the constitution? >> bad. turly is saying president obama was doing this in overdrive. because the government won't uphold the laws, why should taxpayers abide by them. every president from ford through clinton opposed 250 laws, the constitutional objections but they still upheld them. in president is doing worse in not unforcing the laws. >> he likes to quote the founding fathers. listen to this quote from james madison. he says it will be of little avail to the people that the

laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read or so incoherent that they cannot be understood or undergo insays ent changes that no man who knows what the law is today will know wh they are tomorrow. >> presidents can't send troops into war, appoint judges or change laws without consent. in rick's defense, presidents back to wood droe wilson has been abusing executive power. this isn't just an obama thing. >> the fact that it's happened before does not excuse it now. >> i might go back further before wilson. this is an enduring part of our nation, a grab for power. >> coming up, stocks so

irresistible that people are buying them with their own money. you want to hear these stocks coming up next.

we are back with the stocks our informers are buying. >> i share qualities of etf. good solid blue chip names. >> you like the blue chips, john? >> i think the markets are going to see others rather than the blue chips. >> you like technology.

here's a basket of them, go. qqq. >> good, like it. slippery watch out. thanks. for it for us. >> exclusive, rand's plan to resuscitate detroit, senator rand paul is here revealing his free market blueprint to get the motor city rolling again. with more cities on the brink, they might learn a thing or two before they go bust, too. plus -- >> there will be no more taxpayer funded bayouilouts, period. >> america is getting fed up. now the white house may be about to hand insurance companies another massive bailout because of obama care and you'll be paying for it. then, listen up, kids, don't be a maker, be a taker. a 6th grader get